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The trap
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« on: January 24, 2017, 11:52:38 am »

I think certain upgrades for luftwaffe are a bit overpriced and think it deserves to be put in its own thread, from what i've gathered from talking to other members of the community the consensus seems to be that luftwaffe is the weakest of the 3 PE doctrines while i personally think its a strong doctrine i still do think some of its upgrades are overpriced.

1 Falls g43's i could see these going down by 5-15 munis in price, Primarily because it isnt the most amazing dps increase in the world and secondarily because you do not have access to g43 suppression while yes they do good in the hands of fallschirmjaegers i dont think they do good enough to warrant a 20 muni price increase from regular infantry.

2 Panzerfausts, I think these need a 5~ muni price reduction, They're basically an improved version of the at grenade (At least in game mechanic talk) they dont do a lot of damage they dont cause crits (Like the sticky bomb) and you need to be able to use several of them at once to have them act as a decent detterent to enemy tanks, Not to mention wind up timers and the fact that several at a time means several squads on at a time which makes you liable to catch more arty fire.

3 Falls AT rifles, Yeah these are kinda bad honestly and i really think these need a bit of a price adjustment maybe bring it down to 50 as opposed to 60 now, they generally dont kill allied LV's fast enough to be something you want to pick up to deal with them, not to mention LV's are fast infantry are not, and honestly, panzerfausts outshine them in all but one respect and thats quite simply the fact that they're good for causing crits with sneaky rear hits.

Think thats about it, anyone else feel free to add anything else or even gripes from other doctrines (Keep it PE please)
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Saavedra
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2017, 12:33:30 pm »

I think Panzerfausts are fine as they are. I have them on nearly all of my Tank Hunters Pgrens, and though I cannot use them all the time to kill vehicles because of the limited range, they make it more difficult for them to just barge into my Pgrens and push them around. They can also be used to kill decrewed support weapons if you are in a hurry (so, all the time).

Granted, in the Luftwaffe doctrine you can only take them on Gebirsjagers and Fallschirmjagers, but you have doctrines to get an extra use, and make every use double. For a weapon that never misses, always penetrates, does 75 damage, and only costs 30mu (15 per use, down to 5 per use if you take the two doctrinal abilities I mentioned), those are very, very, very, very good perks.

True, you will attract arty fire if you use nothing but Falls with fausts, but... I donīt think you should be using nothing but that. Support the Falls with Marders and spread them out, and you should be able to survive a few arty barrages. Not that Allied arty doesnīt need a nerf...

I would comment on the AT rifles, but the stats are not up on the wiki. Unless they are Boys AT rifles.

To be perfectly honest, Luftwaffe has, in my opinion, quite solid doctrinal abilities. The problem with this doctrine lies in its unique units. The Flakvierling is sh*t thanks to the over-abundance of AT and arty, the 88 is nice but doomed the moment you set it up, and the Wirbelwind is extremely unimpressive and yet another lock-down dependent platform. Tank Hunters and Scorched Earth have enough trouble fighting while mobile, now guess how well Luftwaffe does by remaining completely still.

Axis cannot win battles by forming a line and duking it out head-to-head. Thatīs just the way the meta is now. You would think the Allies should be the ones having to depend on maneuverability to win, but that stopped being true a long time ago. Axis, and by Axis I mean "Wehrmacht and anyone who plays PE and does not engage in constant flanking maneuvers", need to become mobile. That is the only way you are going to get behind the walls of AT guns and elite infantry to destroy the key elements of almost every Allied (particularly American) company now: the triages and artillery units. If you cannot kill those, you are not going to win even if you think you are doing well on attrition. The age of super duper elite German units holding the line is gone. Now it is all about recycling Rangers, expert-repaired Pershings, artillery raining down on Axis, British blobs, and wall of AT guns when an Axis player brings out heavy armour. The only way to win against this is just not being there when it happens, but the theoretically awesome units like Wher paks and all the doctrinal stuff for Luftwaffe keep tricking people into digging in and trying to fight back against the onslaught of tough, mobile and/or outnumbering Allied units, with the added grief of Wehr weapons being stolen and used against their original owners. Remember: Allies are better at recrewing than you are, so stop giving them stuff for free.




And now, a note on general PE stuff: the cost of automatic assault weapons (MP40s, MP44s, FG42s) needs to come down for PE.

The theory is that assault weapons are highly deadly at short range, and therefore should be expensive. This is true when the platform is tough, like Rangers, Airborne and Knightīs Cross. However, PE infantry are unimpressive when trying to bring these weapons to bear. Their armour is theoretically better than their enemiesī, but the problem is that their health is lower. Now correct me if Iīm wrong here, but at short range, accuracy is improved... meaning that while short-ranged automatic weapons will usually win an engagement, standard infantry weapons like the Garand and the M1 carbine also benefit from hitting more often... which means that soldier armour quickly loses its luster, and therefore, these assault weapons become less powerful. So the 130mu FG42, the 110mu MP44 and the 60mu MP40 quickly lose their charm since you have to get to grips with Allied infantry, and that usually means having to charge across open ground, taking effective fire midway to short range, also exposing yourself to whatever other threats are out there. The MP40 is specially bad at it, being more of a defensive weapon than an offensive one.

These weapons are naturally more attractive if you can charge into enemy infantry with your assault units inside a halftrack, but that usually means charging into AT and exposing yourself to losing the halftrack, an extra man when it blows up, and the whole unit if it becomes trapped/suppressed.

Now, you may argue, quite reasonably, that these weapons are still too deadly to make them cheaper. But then, why bother taking them when you have the G43? The G43 is cheaper and will kill stuff at all ranges, not just short range. And given the vulnerability in PE infantry HP I pointed out, you might as well not try to get into short range firefights and stay at the proper range for the G43. Iīm sure there is a very good reason PE blobs almost always feature G43s, but no assault weapons.

I would suggest reducing the costs as follows:
- MP40 to 55mu
- MP44 to 80/100mu
- FG42 to 120mu

I think these reductions are reasonably small to be considered.

As an anecdote, I watched a cast not long ago where a Volks squad with MP40s assaulted a rifleman unit. They suffered no casualties. I know that if I had tried the same, I may have lost at least one man, perhaps two. As it is anecdotal and therefore of dubious value, I would appreciate if other PE assault weapons/Volks MP40 users would offer their own observations on this.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 12:39:09 pm by Saavedra » Logged

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