Terror doctrine review

[AshesFall]

Terror doctrine review

This is going to be a complete review of the terror doctrine after playing 70 games with it this war. My goal is to make these reviews of all the Wehrmacht doctrines during the coming wars. I will only mention the things I feel need changing somehow (either for the better or the worse).

Doctrine Specific units

Terror officer
I actually really like the terror officer idea. Cool concept, cooler model. Decent buffs. However, I believe that the firestorm offmap drop needs to have the on target time reduced further by a second or a second and a half or so. In the latest vcoh patch the packup times of support weapons seem to have been reduced. I’ve often dropped the storm on an mg/mortar just setting up (i.e. starting it’s “set up” time) and have had  them then pack up and  merrily walk off without a scratch. It should not be as fast as the defensive officers’ barrage though.

Saboteurs
Saboteurs need something done to make them useful. They’re too expensive to use solely as a scout unit and suffer from the same problem (though to a lesser extent) as the devils brigade in that they seem to get decloaked a lot (probably due to the second man compared to the spotter). Their current abilities are semi useful and very situational, the sticky has so short a range that the enemy vehicle often simply drives away before the animation finishes, the stun grenade is a lucky shot once now and then. The demo is nice, but if the enemy team is halfway decent you either don’t get to use it (they keep a squad, captain, lieutenant or whatever to spot around their howitzers/triages) or get killed after using it (as you’re revealed behind enemy lines). A very unsure 200mp 80muni investment for a triage or a howitzer isn’t that good a thing.

Any suggestions for changes would be good here.

An idea could be to add an ability to one of the doctrine unlocks (perhaps the “firestorm“ unlock on tier 2 or another one that isn’t that strong in itself?) that allow the saboteurs to drop a terror howitzer “victor target” on a location to lots of red smoke and howling “incoming danger” sirens.

Terror Howitzer
Currently under reworking, holding off on further comments until that is done and implemented.

Doctrine abilities

Hunter Killers
I have tested these out extensively this war and unfortunately I must say that it is really not an interesting option. Sturmpioneers are assault units, their main strength lies in the bundles they can carry and their MP44’s. I understand that the mp44’s are getting a review across all platforms, so no comment there.

With the “volks rifle” the sturmpioneers essentially become a significantly worse grenadier knock off at a higher price. In all cases, buying a grenadier squad or a sturmpio squad without the “rifle option” is preferable to one with the option.

Suggestions;
Option 1: I know some people will be instantly terrified by this suggestion, however, I believe it is a good one.

Allow the doctrine unlock to give the sturmpios the option of a single flamethrower at 100 muni price (in addition to the “extra” cost that  is already covered in the unlock vp price). Currently the wehrmacht flamer option (the pioneer) is not a very good one due to the 2 man platform. This option will emphasize the sturmpios as an assault squad and fit with their historical role and the “terror feel/theme”. I understand that this is a powerful upgrade, and pricing and availability should of course reflect their usefulness. Pioneers are, at present, quite a bit weaker than their American counterparts, due to their two man platform and slightly lower squad health. This would be an interesting way to mix up gameplay and assault options.

Option 2: This is the definetly less desirable option, replace the volks rifle with a gren rifle. At least this will make the squad effective for its’ price. Unfortunately it’s a mirror for defensive doctrine, which isn’t very exciting at all.

If neither of these are feasible, then the ability should be replaced by something else entirely.

Perfectionism
After extensive discussion on the w&t and repair rate values of this option compared to other advanced repair options, and normal repair, I maintain that the rate of repair is too slow and the actual w&t gain is too little to make this option useful, whether it’s free or not.

In essence, perfectionism  repairs .8 hp for .5 w&t per second compared to the normal rates of 1.3hp to .66 w&t/second. The lost time does not justify the negligible gain in final hp once fully repaired. Either the repair rate has to be better, or the w&t significantly lower, or a combination of the two.

Suggestion;  Change perfectionism to conform to that of a single repair bunker pio, in essence 1hp per second at .33 w&T. This would place it squarely in the middle of advanced repair and normal repairs and make the option interesting. If necessary, add a small price to the option in addition to the price already paid  for the doctrine ability.

[Dr.Nick]

Assuming the Terror Howitzer isn't changing what would you opinion of it be?

[AshesFall]

Assuming the Terror Howitzer isn't changing what would you opinion of it be?

I would refer to this thread;

http://www.omgmod.org/index.php?topic=10874.15

... and summarize with the following.

After 70 games played this war with the terror howitzer in every single game, my opinions from this thread remain largely unchanged. The terror howitzer is innacurate, seemingly moreso than most howitzers with a completely random and fairly wide spread. Due to it's "middling range" between the 105 and the 25pndr it often fires at close to max range to avoid being rushed or counter artilleried. Which might factor into that spread.

It's cost does not reflect it's comparative uselessness against vehicles or five shells compared to six. it costs the same as other artillery.

Even when it hits, it often kills one man or damages the squad moderately, so even if the first shot does not miss completely it mostly gives ample time to simply move anything in the area away to safety with some damage and nothing more. Perhaps this is due to the time it takes between bursts to land. It generally does not destroy the weapons themselves, which is a big downside, as they are easily recrewed. Any big "blob" that is moving (which it should be and will be almost contantly) or one that is stationary and starts to move instantly as the first burst falls produces similar results to shooting at support weapons.

It is extremely vulnerable to all forms of allied counter artillery, as a single barrage will (around 70% of the time according to my notes) destroy it completely, weapon and all. Bear in mind that it cannot effectively defend itself by shooting the enemy piece of artillery to destroy it.

All this is not to say that terror howitzer cannot do well. I've paid particular attention to this unit over the games I have played and approximately one game out of ten sees it do a good amount of kills and damage. Mostly this is when facing enemies who cluster groups of support weapons or infantry close together and does not move when the first or second burst lands. annihilation of most of a squad with one hit does also happen, but very rarely unless the squad is already quite damaged. With "good amount" i mean killing 12-20 infantry.

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, I'd like to remind you of a game where a single shell took out a Vickers and two commando squads that were far to spaced out to be killed by a regular Howitzer shot.
I figure the biggest problem is it's randomness.
In theory it has insane damage, but in practice, two hits dead on the exact same squad can produce vastly different results, sort of like a flamer.

Regarding the officer barrage, did it change since the first iteration? I think it might have.
Back in my first test of it, when released, I ordered a barrage on an MG. The MG packed up, moved out, thought it was a fake barrage, got back, set up again, than was wasted by the strike.

[AshesFall]

Well, I'd like to remind you of a game where a single shell took out a Vickers and two commando squads that were far to spaced out to be killed by a regular Howitzer shot.
I figure the biggest problem is it's randomness.
In theory it has insane damage, but in practice, two hits dead on the exact same squad can produce vastly different results, sort of like a flamer.

Regarding the officer barrage, did it change since the first iteration? I think it might have.
Back in my first test of it, when released, I ordered a barrage on an MG. The MG packed up, moved out, thought it was a fake barrage, got back, set up again, than was wasted by the strike.

Hehe, I agree, crazy shit does happen, but rarely enough to put the inclusion of the unit on the odd chance that such a thing will happen into question .

It has changed slightly, they reduced the calldown timer a little bit. When I discussed this with jimbo he agreed that a second to a second and a half further reduction could be in order, but no more. It's not supposed to be as fast as the defensive officers barrage, more of a "gtfo now or you will die" sort of thing, but as it is the player in question has time to bumble around quite a bit with false starts, accidental setups and so on without getting hit, which is a bit much imo.

[Dr.Nick]

Well I still have to disagree completely about the Terror howitzer I absolutely hate fighting against it because it's the one howie where you never know where the shells will land. I could show you a 4vs4 from this war where I lost both my Vet 3 lts at full health because of the lethality and unpredictability of the terror howie. It's also amazingly effective against support weapons because it doesn't have normal howie shell trajectory, it just explodes overhead.

[UnLimiTeD]

Which is the definition of the doctrine. 
Still, I can agree to it's tendency to sometimes just do nothing on a direct hit.

[AshesFall]

Well I still have to disagree completely about the Terror howitzer I absolutely hate fighting against it because it's the one howie where you never know where the shells will land. I could show you a 4vs4 from this war where I lost both my Vet 3 lts at full health because of the lethality and unpredictability of the terror howie. It's also amazingly effective against support weapons because it doesn't have normal howie shell trajectory, it just explodes overhead.

Yeah, it seems our definition of "amazingly effective" is very different .

During the 70 games I have played this war I have kept notes on the terror howitzers performance. While it occassionally does what you describe (in my estimation about 1 game out of ten) that is simply not often enough for it's cost when it whiffs terribly most of the time even against it's "prime targets" (stationary support weapons/blobs). Yes, it's completely random and when playing against it you just have to cross your fingers and hope the random number generator doesnt roll just the wrong number for your troops while they're moving away. At least you can do so knowing that it will rarely roll that number, and will likely only damage you moderately even if it does. It's natural to remember the "OMG WTF" moments when you loose double triple lt's more vividly than all the times it simply... fails.

We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.